00:04
Hello, and welcome back to the widow podcast. It's lovely to have you joining us again. Today I am really excited to be introducing you to the lovely Lisa. I have met Lisa through Instagram, which has been wonderful. I've met many wonderful people through Instagram and Lisa is one of them. She hasn't ever been a client of mine, we haven't worked together but Lisa's positive outlook, her mindset, her story, she is incredibly inspiring, and motivating. And I wanted her to come and share a little bit of her journey with you guys. So that you can understand more about the things you can do to help yourself and hopefully draw some strength, some wisdom from Lisa. And maybe, put some of the things that she's used through her journey into practice yourself to help you on your grieving journey to create something meaningful after loss.
01:12
So Lisa, Hello.
01:14
Hey, how are you?
01:15
I'm good. It's lovely to have you here. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time doing this. So to start off, do you want to tell us a little bit about Si your husband?
01:28
Yeah, so we both had Simons hadn't we?
01:33
We have Yes.
01:34
And that was something I think that drew me to you. Because when you talk about your Simon, I think of my Simon. So yeah, my Simon and was 34 when he died, which was November 2019. And he had been diagnosed 13 months prior with kidney cancer, and it at that stage it was already terminal. It had already spread to his spine and his bladder he had numerous complications as well.
02:14
He had like a blood clot and all sorts was happening when he was diagnosed. He wasn't overly poorly when he was diagnosed which made it quite a shock. Although he had kidney cancer on the day of diagnosis, he still had 100% kidney function. And because the other kidney just you know, made it all look okay, so it was it was tricky to find it but we knew something was wrong for about two or three months before but nothing that we thought would kill him because we don't, you just don't.
02:53
But prior to him being unwell, he was an incredible person, and I love talking about him. And we've been married 10 years. Two children, Miles and Edith, they are seven and four now. But when he died, it was three days before Edith's third birthday and Myles was five. And he was a pastor at a church. And I met him while he was at Bible College, through some mutual friends and he, just love of my life, just completely met married him pretty, pretty quickly. We're engaged and yeah, we were married at 20 I think I was 23 he was 24, We grew up together completely just completely.
03:54
Yeah, just grew up together.
03:57
What was it, tell me what was it that kind of attracted you to him what did you sort of love about him?
04:04
His drive, if anybody knows Simon, they knew that he was incredibly driven, and incredibly ambitious, generous, kind, thoughtful, and he knew what he wanted. I loved that about him. Although at times he'd drive me a little bit mad, but he was very, just high capacity person is what we used to talk about. He could do a lot in very little amount of time. He was really good at what he did, but incredibly personable as well. caring, loving, and you know, had a massive heart for missions, he'd go to Africa, Cambodia on different mission trips. And just had such a big heart. A massive heart for raising money for charities. And he was, like I said, was a pastor at church, so zeal for God and Jesus and furthering the kingdom of God, that was his life's passion, was to further the kingdom of God in everything he did and everything he was, incredibly loyal. And yeah, just amazing. I could go on.
05:33
He was one of life's good people.
05:34
He really was, he was one of a kind.
05:37
Wow,
05:38
He sounds wonderful, so wonderful. How did his faith help him through his illness? Did he draw on that a lot?
05:47
Yeah, he did. He did draw on that lot. And his relationship with God got stronger in so many ways. I mean, he was cross because he was sick and he wanted to be well, but he never based being healed on the God was sovereign. God is sovereign. And, you know, if I get healed this side of heaven, or that side of heaven, I'm healed. Yeah, like when he was diagnosed, they wanted to admit him into hospital straightaway.
06:37
This was a Friday night, and he said, no, classic Simon, no I'm sorry, I've got to wake up in the morning and tell my kids that I'm going to be gone for a few days. And I also need to tell my church family on Sunday.
06:51
And on Sunday, he went and told the church what was going on. And then the Sunday afternoon, he was admitted, and he stayed the week. And yeah he led the church through that time we also had other pastors be involved and be in support. Our support that we encountered in that year of him being unwell was astonishing, through the church community and through friends and family.
07:22
But just you know, held in prayer, held practically, just incredible really.
07:30
That is amazing. I think, you know, when people have something, a face, their belief, something to draw on it, it gives them some strength, doesn't it? It certainly helps a lot of people in many ways.
07:45
So obviously you have a diagnosis. And within that diagnosis, you didn't believe it was going to be terminal. So what happened, was it about 13 months between diagnosis and Si dying?
08:03
How was that process? How did you feel in that process? What were your roles in that in the caregiving side of things for Si? What impact did that have on you, what what was kind of showing up for you in terms of how you were feeling and how did you cope with with what was coming up for you?
08:20
You know, that year I think about it a lot. And I don't know how many memories I laid down actually because I think you're in such a highly anxious state. So Simon had a pulmonary embolism, that's a massive blood clot and when he was diagnosed on the Friday night the doctor kind of just looked at him and said can you stand up, Show me your legs, they called us that Friday night, phone call out of the blue, you need to come in now, bring your parents, bring your wife, it's not good so we knew it wasn't good and when we got there and they said we need to get you on blood thinners straight away you might have a heart attack and die or a stroke, like we just need you that's why they wanted him admitted straight away. And he just didn't seem that unwell. So it was just really odd. He'd been losing weight, but he didn't seem that unwell. So it was a shock to the system understandably.
09:35
And I paused work at that time and I threw myself I suppose into into just being here being present being around the kids being present for Si. Simon was back at work. 3-4 weeks after being off He's like, I can't sit around there's stuff to do. But it was pre-COVID as well, so we couldn't travel, we probably would have traveled if we could have done, but we went away with the kids and we were just very acutely aware of making memories and living.
10:17
So Simon was all about celebrating life, so we would every month of his diagnosis so the second of every month he was diagnosed second of November 2018 the second of every month we had a cake and a candle on that said like he lived another month he lived another month. Which was so lovely but so painful and slightly confusing for the kids, is it his birthday again? I like no it's not you know, but he lived again. And the team at the hospital were incredible but they said to us we didn't think you'd necessarily make Christmas so we're really pleased you're here. And Simon had a massive zeal for life, he wanted to live, he was cross he was dying, and he wanted to live.
11:12
So he talked about celebrating life a lot into the church ,he talked about that and so you know we went to London Zoo , we went on holiday a couple of times ,you know we we makd memories and made stuff happen he was very I want to make our 10 year anniversary and we had a wonderful party for our 1 0year anniversary. YHe wanted to see miles go to school and that was incredible and
11:39
And that year in a way was kind of just a bit of a whirlwind like when I think back to it I'm just like how did I even survive that like that was mental time of the craziest time of my life really. And I just functioned because I'm a high functioning person and kind of in a high state of stress and anxiety I still can function you know quite well, exercise through that time as well which helps, and Simon encouraged me to do that, he was always like you know get yourself to the pool, he would worry about me but I just was like you know don't worry about me I'll worry about you.
12:22
We had a very team mentality to it I suppose which was how we did our marriage so it wasn't unusual that when he was diagnosed it felt like I'd been diagnosed. AndI was at every appointment, every chemo session, every blood transfusion. I lived it with him, I would be as involved as I could be, because he was me and I was him
12:51
so
12:53
do
12:54
Did you talk to each other very honestly and openly about how you were both feeling, what you were expecting moving forwards, what you wanted moving forwards, I mean, what were the conversations like?
13:07
As much as we could, at times it was just too painful. And there was a part of me that always wanted to believe that maybe he'd be healed. So there would be a part of me that was like, well, we don't need to talk about our work because you know, this will be like an amazing miracle.
13:27
But he was incredibly grounded in his faith, he'd say things like; this is not Jesus's fault, I didn't and don't ever blame God for this you know? And equally, he'd say to me, you are going to be all right. Just to hear that was like okay, thank you, I needed to hear that because you doubt everything.
14:02
Did you believe it?
14:05
Yeah, yeah, cause I believed him. Yeah. I believed him. He was my biggest fan really so he'd always kind of you know, I married you because of who you are, and the substance within you. So, when we met I'd just come back from Brazil and he was like, that's why I fell in love with you because you just had such a zest for life and what you wanted to achieve and to see, so that is who I fell in love with, that person is still here today. You know,
14:51
So I mean, is there anything that since Si died that you looked back and thought I wish we'd had this conversation? Or I wish I'd asked him that question, or were you quite accepting of you did what you did at the time because it felt right at the time?
15:09
Yeah, I think we did what we did time and it felt right. There was never going to be enough time. I always still have, there's never, there's never enough, there was never enough time. And he was quite poorly that year, particularly the last kind of four or five months, actually sick and quite unwell. So, the kind of quality of conversation isn't what it was in the beginning.
15:41
But we were with each other pretty much all the time. He worked a job, he worked up to diagnosis and stuff, but he was around, I was around, we'd just go for coffee and spend time together. And just just be us and just hang together really, in between appointments because literally you're just in constant appointments. It feels like.
16:14
I didn't want to be anywhere else, I just wanted to be be with him really, all of the time.
16:19
Yeah, I bet. What about sort of at what point did it become obvious that he was going to die soon? And what did that look like for you in terms of the care you had to provide for him?
16:38
I think it was maybe only,
16:40
I just don't even know, because there was such a spiritual element to it, I didn't ever want to give up hope that things would change. But I do remember having a conversation with him one day, just like, if you come back from this, this is one hell of a story. I wouldn't put it past you, Simon, but you know, wow, you're taking this one to the very limit.
17:11
So he was here the whole time he was at home. And then we had the macmillan nurses around and palliative care team, which were incredible. And that we'd hatched a plan that he needed some fluids and would go to the hospice, get some fluids, maybe have a blood transfusion. But he was really reluctant. He said, Well, I need to be home for Edith's birthday party, which was a Saturday. This was like the Monday that we were hatching this plan. He said fine I'll go in tomorrow, but I need to be home Friday. And he says don't keep me longer, otherwise, I will discharge myself, he was very much the author of what was going on.
17:57
And you know, the care team were amazing. And they were like, okay, but we think you need some fluid, you know, he'd lost a lot of weight by then. Yeah, he was very, very skinny by that time, and I mean those last 48 hours. So he was quite complimentary that Monday morning. And then the last kind of 48 hours he slowly kind of like stopped talking, and he couldn't really move.
18:25
A long story about getting him to the hospice, and we go in there and he was there for 17 hours in the hospice and then he died. But I remember even getting to the hospice and just being like, No, no, he's gonna be okay. You just need to give him some fluids and some blood and he's gonna be home for Saturday because it's Edith's birthday party. And I remember the doctor just looking at me and taking me and his parents into a room and just being like, we need to talk about his body is showing signs of ending. I was like, oh, okay, this is ending. It's finishing. Like we've been on this, I don't know, like treadmill, I don't know, I was I was like, it's it's coming to an end. Is this gonna be how it ends?
19:12
And they made him amazingly comfortable in the hospice and I remember saying to them, do I need to get the kids here? And they said, yeah, as soon as you can. And I was like, oh, okay, this is not long then is it, so how long have we got? Their like as soon as possible.
19:34
Okay, so I called school, called the child minder, just immobilized people, literally, I remember. And it was pre COVID days. So literally, you know, like his best friend. I just, I remember sending a picture of the address of where we were, the hospital and I just said come now and like, bang up the motorway. You know, and within hours, I was surrounded by amazing friends and family.
19:59
They made him really comfortable, the kids were around, we were playing music. And you know, we just people came to say their goodbyes. And, I don't even know how much he knew was going on. I think he did, I think hearing the music he loved, he loved music he loved like dance music. And so there's a film with Ryan Gosling, called drive and he loved the soundtrack to drive. And he I mean, he planned his whole funeral Simon, he said to me, because he kept saying, I'd like this song at my funeral, if I die, I said, you need to write that down. Because I'm not going to be in any fit state to remember any of your requests. You write the whole thing down, he wrote beginning, middle, and if he's written his own sermon in the middle, he could have done and he said, I've just left it on the top shelf, so that if anything happens, you know where it is, you know, we played, we play good music together and then I had a little sleep. And I kept thinking, is he going to die when I'm asleep? But you know, I just couldn't keep my eyes open. And I woke and then a couple of hours later so peacefully, his mom and me were there. And he and he passed away.
21:20
And the hospice were amazing, I asked questions, how long have we got, and they were like w can't tell you exactly, but these kinds of things will change. That was helpful.
21:33
And
21:35
And then going home, I never slept that night, just as if I don't sleep, then it didn't happen, you know, then it's not the day, but then the next day a friend came up, just slept, slept and slept and slept. I can't tell you how much I slept after he died. I just wanted to sleep. And I was so tired. And I think it was that it was that run of adrenaline, you know, from diagnosis day, 13 months, it was like go go go go go go go, you know, people talk about cancers a battle, which kind of really struggle with because then does that mean you've lost the battle and all that, but I was spent out exhausted.
22:21
But my go to, is to do more. And, be more and do more and distract more, you know, and go somewhere and do something, get busy. And so I really had to kind of work on that. And then four months later, three months, four months later lockdown happened. And it was all right, shut up, shut up shop we're here for the long haul. And that really changed me, and I said to when we previously chatted, the solitude of lockdown helped me heal, because I couldn't run away. I couldn't go anywhere and I couldn't distract myself and I couldn't do this and do that and do the other, I had to sit with it. Sit in house and had to be and feel it.
23:17
Would you say that is a necessary part of the grieving process? Taking that time to learn to almost be comfortable with the uncomfortable and not try and distract, escape, avoid it?
23:35
And
23:37
I wouldn't have thought so. But I think because I had to, I think it is really necessary now. Because I don't think I'd be the person I am today without that period that I had of solitude and of rest and recuperation and of healing.
24:01
And it brought to the surface the anxiety. So although the threat had now gone, you know, the threat of Simon dying that was you know, every hospital appointment, every scan, every phone call from a doctor, every blood test, we kind of had the worst news, so I don't know what we were kind of ever worried about really. And also the fear that he could literally drop dead in front of me because of the pulmonary embolism. I injected him twice a day for every single day from diagnosis. It's just that kind of level of responsibility, I suppose.
24:43
And I think the threat had gone, but I was still in such a highly anxious state. Yeah, I was still worried and worried. doesn't really cover it. I was just still, but you'd never know because I'm really high functioning worried person I just can get on with stuff still but I look at photos now and I kind of was like wow you would never have known but again I've got my lipstick on I've got my hair down I'm showered you know I look fine but I'm like a duck, my legs are going crazy
25:23
And i got to a point, and I was experiencing so many flashbacks, so the pre, the year that Si was diagnosed, you just have different experiences in terms of different scans and smells and just all sorts that is happening in that year and I was just having so many flashbacks, make a cup of tea and I just see stuff again or hear stuff again or just feel stuff again and it was really strange because I just thought why am I so anxious? The threats gone but the trauma, the trauma is still so current in my day and this is maybe eight nine months after he died
26:12
And I thought I've got to look into this. Classic me, i can't function like this, I've got to sort this out and it was also integrated with I was exercising loads so lock down had happened and I was exercising a lot to help my mental health which has always helped my mental health in massive ways. And yet I still had these love handles like you know just how I was like the way I'm the fittest I've ever been. But yeah, maybe it's time of life, maybe it's just you know, that's how my body is now.
26:53
And then I got speaking to a friend. And we talked about the adrenal glands and cortisol levels and everything being kind of like your body holding on to that fat because it's in such a high stress level, such a high state of arousal. And I was like, I need to sort this out, I need to calm the flip down. Because this is partly why I couldn't settle. So I really had to force myself to rest and settle because you're running on that adrenalin all the time.
27:25
And I got, different things aligned, and i got talking to a naturopath and we had a consultation, we talked about nutrition and we talked about the adrenal gland. Basically my adrenal glad had been shot to pieces, and that I was living in this high state of alert all the time. And that my body was just not able to let go of those fat stores and kind of explained all the science around it. I can understand that.
27:59
But how do I calm down? How do I? and we talked about the reoccurring trauma basically, and I wasn't diagnosed with PTSD and I don't necessarily feel like I need to have that as a diagnosis. But definitely, you're reliving, in my mind's eye, I'm a very visual person so I can relive things very, very visually.
28:21
So I then embarked on like a 12 week sessions with weekly sessions with her to basically rewrite some of this trauma. That was Neuro Linguistic planning it's called, and it's kind of like rewind therapy. So you look at the traumatic event again, and you take the toxic emotion out of it, so you can still see, I still remember stuff as you know, like I remember when he died, but it's not like emotionally traumatizing again. So I would relive him dying and relive the diagnosis.
29:02
So an example I always use is it's always around this time, fireworks, so Si was diagnosed on fireworks night 2018, and I remember we were at the hospital and looking out over the city, and there was loads of fireworks going off around the city. And I remember just you know, we had I think we had a fireworks party. And three weeks before he died, we had a fireworks party. And loads of friends and family, it's all just all disintegrated around fireworks
29:37
Now I had a very good memory of fireworks, childhood memories, good memories of fireworks and with Simon as well. And then now I've got this massive link of fireworks and the trauma attached to that. So on roles 2019 and all of a sudden I'm putting kids to bed and I hear fireworks outside and I freeze and I'm literally like, I'm back in that place, I'm back three weeks before he died, I'm back on the diagnosis night and it all just flooded, I think I'm gonna have a panic attack in the middle, I just could just feel my emotions running.
30:12
So I was right in the middle of therapy at that time. So I took it to my therapist and said we've got to work through this. And when I say I cried during those sessions, like it was like a deep, like in the depths of my soul. Working through that grief and trauma. And we did a piece around fireworks. And I was kind of like, it's still I think the jury, for me was still out a little bit with this, I was like, this is just Hocus Pocus, I'm not sure. But you know what, I need to give it a go because I can't do this every single year with fireworks. or whenever I see a firework, I have this anxiety state. And so we did the piece of work, and we reframed it and reshaped it, you know, put it in a bit more of a manageable place. Then that night, I had to take miles to beavers, and he said, Oh, Mommy, there's a fireworks display down the road, can we go? Let's test it out. And I sat there, and I watched the whole display and didn't get triggered. I literally was like, I don't even know whether I fully understand this. But it just works. Yeah, like, it just works. I watched the display. And I remembered specifically the happy memories that I had put in, and I can still acknowledge that, you know, it's not amnesia, no. But I'm not traumatized about it.
31:40
And I suppose that's one of the ways I can explain the kind of therapy that I had. That it helped me process. I mean, we literally had a list of them, I was like, I'm gonna need it. It wasn't like diagnosed, you know, I just had so many times that needed. But I was out, I was living it constantly. So in every one that we looked at and addressed, was another one that I then could get more present day. And I then didn't have to, live in that high state of anxiety.
32:16
So I just started to relax, because I was not living in such a traumatic state anymore. I was way more relaxed. And so I slept deeper, and I ate better. And I was calmer with the kids so much calmer with the kids. And I could problem solve again. I could, just think a bit more clearly, not reacting but responding. And just start to think, Okay, what does my future look like? Like, this is not what I planned for. And it's not Si's plan. This is where we find ourselves and kind of regrouping, really and kind of going right. Okay, what was that? I don't know. But okay, How are we going to start moving forward, what are we going to start doing? What's gonna be good for us as a family of three? You know?
33:24
Do you feel that in order to get to that point of thinking, What's next? What do I want life to look like? What do I want to create here? You know, being able to look forward, maybe with a little bit of hope in your heart. Do you think you have to get to a point where you have done a lot of work with your grief that there's an acceptance of where you're at, in that moment before you can start to maybe look ahead a little bit?
33:55
Yeah, I think I had to sit with my grief. And I mean, accept it. I've talked to you briefly about the anagram before, but I'm like an anagram three if anyone knows what anagram stuff is, if you don't, look it up. It's really good. It's really helped me. I'm an anagram three, which basically kind of means I'm quite goal orientated, very organized, very ambitious. You know, I look for validation, through accomplishments and I'm very productive. And I think I always almost kind of tackled my grief like that. I was like, right, I'm going to need to grieve well, in order to get you know, so I had books about grief. I listen to podcasts about grief. I listen to podcasts with David, you speak to him. David Kessler, Listen to him in a podcast with Bernie Brown.
35:01
It's brilliant isn't it that podcast?
35:03
That podcast is gold. I remember listening to that in lockdown while pottering around in the garden I'm listening to podcast loads I plug myself in the kids are doing whatever they're doing. And I kind of like I need to get it's like I need to understand it so I can feel it. And it's like if I don't I'm not a very worthy person I kind of I mean, I can get me wrong. And but it's for me to listen to people really helps me kind of 'Yes, I understand that' and so you know different communities like communities on Instagram, the grief community, I remember I came across Megan divine refuge and grief and she just put things like, dreading the weekend. And I was like, Yes, I did the weekend. But I didn't know that I dreaded the weekend, but you've said it and I do thank you, because I just thought I didn't almost think that.
36:07
I needed to kind of like examine grief and understand grief and get my head around it in a way. And I'm still getting my head around it in a way. I mean, we're coming up to two years. And like I said, it is either the first five or the early days, I'm early doors, early doors. But equally I knew that if I didn't, if I didn't get this knot straight in my head, because it's not like Oh, it's so straight. Now we're fine now, like if I didn't get this, if I didn't have the therapy, and I didn't get it sorted in my head, this ship was going to go down. And it was going to go down fast. Because I think the responsibility of being so low. I was like I said, the kids have only got me now, they've got family and they've got friends and we are so loved and so supported. But I need to be the best version of me. Like for these kids, like they've already lost one. They can't lose another. So you know, the drive came from that for them.
37:19
But equally I don't want to live in this traumatic state. I didn't want to live in this state of trauma. I knew that I needed to live life because Si talked about celebrating life and being alive and loving life. And I was like how can I do that? And I can do that if I understand what I've been through and I can understand maybe a bit more about grief from what I understand myself also diving into the anagram leaving no jokes aside, it really made me understand myself a bit more. And just doing some personal growth stuff and reading about you know, nutrition and listening on other podcasts. I like to listen to Roman Saturday, like every week about sleep and about vitamins and kind of just being the healthiest, wellness person I can be. And yeah, I still eat chocolate and drink gin like absolutely. But I I don't know how long I'm going to be alive for. You know, we assume when we get together it means I live happily ever after. And then he died. And nothing is guaranteed, is it?
38:40
And I think there's something about the widow community that gets that starkly.
38:48
And therefore these last few years being in lockdown and also kind of coming out of it and stuff has been for me about who am I now? You know, I am a different person. I'm a different person in 2018. Lisa, to 2019 Lisa to 2020 that is very different. You know, a part of me died when died, no doubt, but I'm changed. Fundamentally, my soul has changed, my core has changed. I don't know whether my beliefs have changed. I don't know what I had to find who I am again without Simon at my side, where I thought he was going to be you know, asking those questions or what are my motivations now? Where do I want to go? Be? Who do I want to be to my children? You know, I'm not answering all those questions at once, but just always making sure it's checking in with myself. Am I am I honoring him through the life I'm living, he was cross he was dying, he'd say I want to live, I want to see my kids grow up and the thing is I say to myself, I didn't die, I've changed but I didn't die so therefore I have to live, so how can I live my best out in today because actually we only have today because I don't know when I'm going to die so I've only got today and you have to equally be careful with that because there's a Flipside where you could be like right listen I'm going to spend all my money and you know be wild. You can't just live for the day because you also need to live for the future but it's getting that balance and for me it's surrounding myself with people good friends good family checking things out, is this a good idea for me to think about this or do this so you know just having some sounding boards so that I'm not going too far off piece in where I'm living this new life that's becoming my new normal.
41:19
I suppose I find it really funny, the whole lockdown, coming out lockdown new normal and stuff are my normal anyway. Because Si died so that, that was an old life kind of anyway.
41:31
Yeah, definitely. And that's really hard. I think it's really hard, accommodating all those changes, isn't it. Accepting that your life has changed, accepting that you have changed your outlooks, your beliefs, you know that the things you want. And we have so many big questions. Like you say, Who am I? What do I desire? What do I want life to look like? How do I go forward and make the best of this, while still honoring my person? You know, how do I do that? Without the guilt, the shame? The sadness, there's so much where do you even begin? I mean, what was your..
42:08
Therapy! Go to therapy, go to therapy, I say this to everybody all the time. But yeah, basically from diagnosis, I went to therapy. Because everybody, everybody is going through their grief. You know, parents, in laws, brothers, you know, everybody, and so everybody's capacity is a little limited. But I used therapy, I knew it was an hour a week I had where it could all be about me.
42:49
Yeah, it's important, right?
42:51
And I could bring anything to it. And to be able to have that was so freeing to be able to take that time. So I had kind of ongoing therapy from diagnosis to about a year after Si, pretty much two years, and then I had the 12 weeks really intensive trauma work. And just to have that space to check in with myself and to to ask those questions and to just be held and to be listened.
43:30
And just to kind of explore we talked a lot about kind of like battle fatigue so remember that was rough I can understand why I was so tired and we talked about that you know, you're fighting fighting, fighting, adreneline was over well, you know, shot to pieces, but I was just you know, exhausted and, and just different things that we explored in that and I knew it was a safe place, I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere else and I knew I could sometimes I just go and just cry for an hour and literally just wipe my tears and, Okay, I'm good, but you know, and I've cried at home but it was different because you're needed at home and your money and you're, you know doing this and doing that and cooking cleaning, and so I just knew that that hour was was my hour to do what I needed to do.
44:17
But I think I've always been quite a self reflecting person. So I think I've always kind of, you know, journaled and wanted to sit with those difficult emotions at times know that they'll pass know that they'll change know that they'll move getting out of my head really helps and in doing that I do that through exercise. So when when Si was diagnosed, first things we did was join the gym. But if there's any good time now be now right? And you know, and he'd come and he can simply swim a couple of lengths or whatever and, but he knew that I needed it. I needed it to sweat So I've always always been swimming and also just like yoga and body balance and kind of just meeting and I really found that integrating that into my week helps getting out of my head because I can't think of anything else when you're swimming or more like a process when I say I'm actually but yoga and body balance I can't recommend you focusing on what they're telling me to do so they're just having that headspace sometimes and it's just it was just fundamental to me and I carried that on and it's a non negotiable for me.
45:38
Ihave been poorly the last few weeks, had COVID and not feeling myself at all and then I went back today and I was like oh there it is. And I just did a few lengths sat in the sauna went to yoga and I'm like just so much better because grief is in you it's in your bones it's in your body. It's so it's so painful. And so moving for me helped massively in all the stages and continues to, so I got a peloton bike set up when lockdown happened because I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't exercise because they stopped. I was like, hey, how can I exercise? Okay, well, I can set up a work out. So I set up Simon's bike in the front room on rollers and was just like, Okay, well at least I can always move. You know, and it just continued that because for me, it's not choice. I can't, I can't do it based on my feelings. Because I can't always trust that my feelings necessarily feel good for me because some, so I just stopped making decisions based on my feelings, I'd make a decision not even based on motivation. It's a decision that I will exercise three, four times a week because I know it's good for me. And I know it helps me.
47:18
Yeah and I think that's a really interesting point isn't it? Because I think we have to ,we have to build integrity with our word essentially you know, and I think when we're grieving when we're in the depths of despair that that physical pain there's so much that stops us from doing the things that we know will help us you know, a lot of us know what we need to do ,what will help us but knowing and doing are two very different things our feelings get in the way we wake up we feel heavy we feel sad we're exhausted because grief is exhausting there's no escape from it and there's that well why what's the point why should I bother I can't be bothered and the want the desire the drive isn't there because you just you can't and especially when you first start you know when you first go and get some exercise there's that okay, well it doesn't really feel any better you know, it's like it's an investment of time isn't it that you have to kind of really be present in and it doesn't have to be a peloton bike you know you don't have to go swimming even you can go for a brisk walk out in nature it doesn't even have to cost you anything but to physically move your body have something to focus on you know release those stress hormones and increase those feel good hormones. It helps us you know, it's scientifically proven to help us with our grief there's no argument about it but like you say doing it is is difficult when we don't want to do it when we're tired and so we have to almost make that promise to ourselves because we're never going to feel motivated
48:52
So that's why I never exercised in the evenings so I exercised first thing in the morning because if I wait till the evening Id have all the excuses under the sun. So it's wake up, gym stuff, kids get breakfast, I go on the bike and then you sit down your computer for nine o'clock and you're smug for the day because you've already done a workout.
49:18
I think again it doesn't make sense to me so I needed to kind of understand the science behind it and understand you know, so listening to podcasts about all the benefits of exercise to kind of convince myself like I know it's good but I also need to know to know to know that it's good for me.
49:55
I mean, I've never been one for exercise. It was only after Simon died. I discovered exercise and I genuinely can't live without it now you know it keeps me sane it helps me with my mindset physically mentally emotionally all of it you know it's my time and I think we have to keep exposing ourselves to things that motivate us inspire us instill hope in us, podcasts are a great great way of doing that aren't they? And for me to go out and exercise and listen to a podcast You know, there's so many and they don't always have to be about grief because we can get really bogged down with grief. You know, people often say to me, what other podcast can I listen to and what are the books I can read and then they come back a few weeks later, a bit griefed out and I get it and it's like, there's only so much you can take but there's so many personal development, podcasts and books and shows, YouTube's, all thoughts out there and I think in as much as you can you know submerge yourself in that and keep repeating the things that you need to keep doing. It eventually it sinks into our subconscious and it becomes our reality almost you know, and I think like you say you just have to keep exposing yourself to that world to those belief systems so that it becomes ingrained so that you deeply understand it and it's not just something you've heard and thought oh yeah that sounds good and then just carried on doing what we do which doesn't help.
51:28
It can be flaky, can definitely be like I'm gonna go all out, motivated for two weeks to run, but you've got to do it when you're not motivated as well. Yeah and I think that you know, that's the thing, there's non negotiables in my life, that I know are kind of like my foundations, my kind of scaffolding that holds me up. For me it's food, good food and sleep. If I have not slept it goes downhill very quickly in my head, having babies was really fun, so you know, yeah food, sleep for me. And exercise, which is like oh yeah of course because everyone's the trio kind of thing but again it is that simple actually like for me, those foundations are are set. I'm a much nicer person to be around and I much prefer myself to be around myself.
52:34
Yeah, definitely. And that's the thing isn't it? I mean, is that something you noticed in your grief because you know i say all the time I just think we're so ill equipped to deal with grief, we know nothing about it, our expectations around it are ridiculous. We give ourselves a really hard time. Did you notice yourself giving yourself a hard time? you know your internal dialogue your inner critic what was that like for you in the depths of grief and how did you go about I don't know not fighting it, but...
53:06
yeah, I would say it was that moment where I reached out to have the trauma therapy actually, because in my head I was like, I am so anxious yet the threats gone. Why are you so anxious? Like calm down? Like just quite you know quite critic, critic. Come on.
53:26
Yes, the worst happened. But you know, you should be okay. What, like eight months in like, my expectations of myself can be extraordinary. Even now, you know, people say to me, yeah, but why should you be okay with that? This is still really hard. You know, and I think it was at that. That point, I knew I needed extra help here. Because I thought this is not going, this is growing. This is mushrooming. Yeah, this is impacting on how I'm parenting. This is impacting relationships, is impacting my head, just constantly. You're seeing things again, and the trauma, and the flashbacks. And the way I'm interacting with people, but you wouldn't necessarily know as well, like, I kind of can hold it together.
54:35
But I think what's lovely is you notice it doesn't really matter what you see or perceive of your reality. I wasn't happy, you weren't happy, but you were aware of that. And you were noticing what was going on for you what was showing up how you were feeling and how that was impacting your life. And I just think so many of us are not aware. I mean, I certainly wasn't until I started on my journey. You know, you get on the hamster wheel of life and you just you just keep doing the things you've always done because you don't know any differently and you don't really fully understand what's going on for you in that moment. And it is just stopping for a minute and thinking what am I doing what am I thinking what am I feeling and how am I reacting to this because often a lot of time we are reacting we're not responding and it's in that isn't it?
55:25
And I think you clearly have a very high level of self awareness which is steered you in great stead through your grieving journey because you're able to take stock a little bit And I truly believe that's the fundamentals of any changes is that awareness because without it how do we know what we're changing? How do we know what we're doing? We can't you know, and we don't know where to start if we don't know where we're at. In that time.
55:52
I just knew I didn't want to live like this. And I just was like well if you don't want to live like this you're gonna have to do something about it
56:00
And that's a hard realization to come to really hard i think that understanding this is on me. Actually I can't spend all my money and make us happy we can't just move house I can't just find another partner and get married and it'll all be okay it's like you know.
56:18
There's loads of things , but lockedowne saved me from doing that because I couldn't I could see myself as like Okay Where can I go on holiday? How can I spend money should I buy new cars you know, just going through my head like hey, what can I get? You know what can I do? spend spend spend Yeah, knowing that it would feel good for a minute and then you know, because I know that the connections not there and and it just yeah, totally that just just I just remember thinking this will go one of two ways. Yeah, but when you do have a choice in this there is help and it was driven by my weight which was interest ingbecause I wasn't overweight but just avoid that I still had these kind of I went with the pretense of that yeah, that felt kind of safe and acceptable Yep. And then and then when you know we took that layer off it was never then about the way Yeah, I lost inches. That's lovely. That was great. But my gosh, it was karma. Yeah, definitely. And it was more connected with my kids when I was less just less stress.
57:29
And I think that is just one of the biggest For me it was one of the biggest realizations Wake Up Calls whatever you know that understanding of you want everything in your life to feel better. And it's always looking for those external kind of options of how can I make my life better? What can I do? What can I buy, where can I go and it's understanding we've got to go within we've got we've got to invest in us we've got to dive deep you know, and really, and when we invest in us when we make the inside better, everything on the outside just naturally becomes better we start to make better choices you know, we find clarity and we understand ourselves and what we desire, what makes us tick, what doesn't and that just leads us down a path that's more aligned with who we are and feels more fulfilling, but it's not what we do naturally as it is invest in ourselves and give ourselves an hour a week where we can go and cry and be heard and be seen and have our grief witnessed without being judged without being blind sided you know or somebody kind of feeling desperately uncomfortable not knowing what to say it's kind of that space is just I think so vital in our healing journeys, you know, creating that space for ourselves. Because we're worth it, we're absolutely worth it.
58:53
The worst has happened. the very worst has happened. So it requires that acknowledgement. And that things are never going to be the same again. Never. Ever.
59:14
That's hard.
59:15
And how do we go forward with that? How, how do I now live when everything I ever knew is not as it was, you know, so it will be a life's work. Yeah. And I truly believe that because grief shows up. Still shows up I'm not traumatized anymore but grief is still present. So grief is in you know the graduation from preschool and he's not standing next to me. It's in the Christmas Day. It's in the garden when it's on me to do gardening. It's in everything because he's still here. He's still present in our thoughts in our conversations and in our photos, in our discussions. But it's how you have a relationship now, with your person, although they're not here, isn't it?
1:00:25
Absolutely. How do you do that? How have you sort of integrated your the loss of Simon into your future? How are you honoring Simon? You know, and taking him forward with you?
1:00:41
I suppose I will talk about him at any opportunity. You know, I think it's funny that kind of coming out of lockdown. And people are like, you know, well, there she is, you know, she okay. And, I like to be the kind of person who says his name. Then it's like, Okay. And we talk about him a lot as a family, which I think helps and around the kids talk daily with about him with the kids, and play music and just honor him. Honor him around the dates as well as him coming up to the second anniversary. I don't know there's just I suppose keeping, still keeping him still present. He's still about, he's still, he's still. He influences me. I will often be like, what would Simon say about this? Because he was so wise, I'll ask friends, what do you think Simon would think about this, because that really helped me, especially those early, early days. When I couldn't make a decision about toast, I just couldn't make a decision. And things have expanded on that, you know, I can make, I can make decisions now.
1:02:22
We grew up together, we were together so young, had such like, fundamental 10 years of our lives together, you know, the impact he had on my life. But, you know, it's profound. I am the person I am today, because of him. And I will always be that way. Because of him. And, you know, I think with the kids, he's there in front of me, in them. Even weird things like miles will rub his eyes in certain ways, like Si did. And I see it and I'm astounded sometimes. Yeah, but we Yeah, I suppose we just honor him. We honor Him and never, never let it go quiet around him, about him. You know, there's always there's always a freedom that we can talk about Daddy, we can talk about Simon. And, you know, old and, and new relationships and friendships, we can talk about him here.
1:03:28
It's so important, isn't it? And I think, you know, as much as you said earlier, part of us dies with them. It does, you know, there's no escaping that we are forever changed. But there's also a part of them that lives on in us, you know, I think we do carry them. They come with us on our journeys, they have shaped the person we've become, we are who we are, because they've been in our lives, and they've, you know, helped us form create the person that we are now and they form our decisions, moving forwards, you know. And sometimes it can be again, sometimes you can go against them, you know, like the decisions you make. Remember, always remember, Simon wouldn't ever let me have fitted wardrobes in our bedroom. And then when he died was like I'm having a fitted wardrobes.
1:04:17
For Simon it was fake flowers. He hated fake flowers. And yeah, I've got plenty of fake flowers. Just like I really liked them.
1:04:26
But so funny, but it shows me that it doesn't always have to be that they form my decisions in a way that we would do what they would do all the time. Yeah, my own thing. I'm doing it. I'm unconscious of time. But I think this has just been a wonderful, wonderful conversation. It really has. You have offered so much, Lisa, it's been so inspiring and thought provoking, and you've offered so much wisdom and strength for people. So thank you so much. Do you have one little piece of advice that you would say to somebody struggling right now in their journey?
1:05:08
I would say, it won't always feel like this. Which is bit cliche. I appreciate that. But it's true. But my gosh, it is true. And I really I can only believe that it's true because I have lived it. There were points where I was like, wow, is this is forever? Because if it is, I'm not sure I'm going to be okay with that. But acknowledging it, and acknowledging it, holding it, holding the space for it. And knowing that literally nothing lasts forever. So neither can this emotion and neither can this feeling. And neither can this. But oddly, you will miss this as well. Because there was a wrongness in the beginning that makes you feel super close. I feel significant. That then you oddly Miss. Because we're not as raw. And so although it's suffocating, it will pass you will change move grow. Because nothing stays the same. And I think you know, spring comes again, I always love putting bulbs in this time of year get your bulbs in now you know, cracking time of year. And because it gives you hope. I remember putting the bulbs in that year and just being like I don't know when I'm going to see these again, after Christmas, I don't know what my life will look like but they will come up. They just they just will because that's what happens in nature around us. And so that can be reflected back onto us. That things will change and grow again. And, so that's what I just say, hold tight. Like it cannot and it will not last forever. And get your bulbs in.
1:07:30
Absolutely get your bulbs in. Bless you Lisa. That is wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it lovely. And I will speak to you again very soon.